This follow-up to our Rogue starter guide and the Combat leveling post covers Subtlety, the stealth-opener tree, which Forever has reworked more heavily than any other Rogue tree. It's based on TopBuilds' leveling order, warstry's Wowhead build (via WoW Classic Forever), Kami-Labs, BrokenMeta and Blizzard's beta notes through the October 15 build. Forever launches Nov 4, 2026. The beta is capped at level 30, so anything past 30, including Thousand Cuts, hasn't been tested in play.
What's new in the tree
According to WoW Classic Forever's comparison with Classic:
- New talents: Cutthroat, Thousand Cuts (the 31-point talent at level 40), Quietus and Improved Distract.
- Reworked: Dirty Tricks replaces Improved Sap. It halves the Energy cost of Sap and Blind.
- Removed: Sleight of Hand and Deadliness.
- Changed: Master of Deception and Opportunity now have fewer ranks (3 and 2). Camouflage, Setup, Premeditation and Improved Ambush moved to different tiers.
What the new talents do (talent text only):
- Cutthroat (Kami-Labs): Sinister Strike can let you use your next Ambush without stealth within 10 seconds.
- Thousand Cuts (Kami-Labs): each Rupture tick lowers the Energy cost of your next Hemorrhage or Sinister Strike, stacking up to 5 times.
- Quietus (BrokenMeta): +10% damage against targets below 35% health.
Two level 30 builds
TopBuilds leveling order (21 points):
| Levels | Talent |
|---|---|
| 10–11 | Opportunity 2/2 |
| 12–14 | Camouflage 3/5 |
| 15–17 | Improved Ambush 3/3 |
| 18–19 | Setup 2/3 |
| 20 | Ghostly Strike 1/1 |
| 21–23 | Initiative 3/3 |
| 24 | Setup 3/3 |
| 25–27 | Serrated Blades 3/3 |
| 28 | Premeditation 1/1 |
| 29 | Camouflage 4/5 |
| 30 | Hemorrhage 1/1 |
warstry's build (Wowhead, Oct 6): Camouflage 1, Master of Deception 3, Opportunity 2, Setup 3, Elusiveness 2, Dirty Tricks 2, Initiative 3, Premeditation 1, Serrated Blades 3, Hemorrhage 1. It gives up Improved Ambush and Ghostly Strike for stealth and control utility. Warstry gives no pick order, and WoW Classic Forever doesn't invent one.
Which one? For solo leveling, TopBuilds' Ghostly Strike and Improved Ambush add more damage. Warstry's build is more about getting in and out safely. Nobody has posted head-to-head numbers, so we're not ranking them.
The opener loop
- Stealth. Premeditation (2 combo points) if you have it.
- Ambush (level 18), or Garrote if you aren't behind the target. Initiative can add an extra combo point.
- Hemorrhage or Backstab (with a dagger) to build combo points. Ghostly Strike if you took it.
- Slice and Dice or Eviscerate to finish. At level 30, Rupture gets stronger with Serrated Blades.
- Vanish (level 22) to restart the opener on dangerous pulls.
Poisons: BrokenMeta and others recommend Instant Poison on the main hand and Deadly Poison on the off hand (Deadly Poison trains at 30).
Level 60 preview (untested)
BrokenMeta's level 60 plan is 31/20/0 (Subtlety/Combat, no Assassination). Its simulator reports 419 DPS on a 180-second level 63 boss. Kami-Labs' MythicSim run reports 703 DPS with dungeon and crafted gear (Oct 20). The two simulations use different setups, so don't compare the numbers directly. Kami-Labs also says chaining Cutthroat and Thousand Cuts "still has to be tested in game".
Changes that matter for Subtlety
- Oct 1: Setup now only gives combo points against the target you dodged (Blizzard).
- Oct 15: Poisons no longer proc on attackers, and Sap no longer triggers weapon procs or can be used to flag PvP (Blizzard).
Still unclear
- How strong Cutthroat is in practice. Its proc rate and how it fits into Subtlety's rotation aren't known yet.
- Thousand Cuts and Quietus are past the level 30 cap.
- Whether Hemorrhage outperforms a dagger Backstab at level 30. We haven't found tests of either.
Sources
- TopBuilds: Subtlety Rogue Leveling Build & Talents
- WoW Classic Forever: Subtlety Rogue Guide (warstry's Wowhead build, Oct 6)
- Kami-Labs: Subtlety Rogue PvE Build
- BrokenMeta: Subtlety Rogue guide and level 60 build
- Blizzard forums: WoW Forever Beta Development Notes – Updated October 15
Images: header and talent order card by Systematic, using the Systematic wallpaper and brand colours. Ability icons on the card © Blizzard Entertainment via Wowhead (Classic-era icons used as stand-ins; Forever's may differ).
Fan community guide by Systematic. World of Warcraft © Blizzard Entertainment; we're not affiliated with Blizzard. Running Subtlety on the beta? Share your opener and builds below!
